Tulpa.info - tulpa-questions

kei how is your heartbeat and breath?

Tiny bit faster than normal

Kei Wendt

No but i don't want to see them die violently

Do it anyway

Now im trying to breathe deeper since you pointed it out

can i dm you?

The ‘violent death’ was one of many examples I gave on how to visualize removal

Galli

Do it anyway

Deliberately visualizing something violent would give me terrible intrusive thoughts.

Rusty

For me, visualizing the removal of the thoughts is helpful. I like to imagine pushing it backwards, as if it has a physical form within my head, and focus on feeling it move backward until it’s no longer even in the space where my head would be

This one is the most affective for me

Leiko

can i dm you?

Yes

Kei Wendt

Now im trying to breathe deeper since you pointed it out

Now im breathing consciously, thank you :_(

i will send friend request

Desting 😎 (Con Cat)-(おひたし、お浸し)

Now im breathing consciously, thank you :_(

Fuck it's infectious

We used to get that all the time while trying to learn fronting because we would focus too much on basic tiny things in the body that we didn’t need to at all

7:23 PM

Fox used to constantly have an issue of having to manually keep his eyes focused for some reason. Ink still to this day has a problem with that but me and Error do not and I do not know why

guys in situation like this a person needs grounding, not getting deeper into making stuff up

7:29 PM

for future reference

7:32 PM

yeah thanks for removing that randomm

Any visualization that includes a form and not just the basic concept of the thoughts is probably not a good one to enforce as it allows the mind to make up extra shit and make you feel more guilty

exactly

7:34 PM

oh building is on fire, maybe adding more fire will help

I one time had an intrusive thought that replied like a tulpa for as long as I interacted with it. Of course, I stopped interacting. For these things, completely ignoring them is best imo. Responding to them, checking if they're still there, visualizing doing things to them, is perpetuating them and treating them like a headmate of sorts

totally

Discord canary crashed and I lost my message D:

There's a mindset in some places that if something in your mind talks and seems sentient, then it's a whole real person who needs to be accepted as a system member. Of course, the logic is, if your current headmates feel a certain way and the new thoughtform feels that way too, surely you need to treat them with the same care and respect? The thing is, when your brain knows how to make a headmate, it can throw all those headmate-like elements together very quickly. And it seems the more you accept walk-ins (let-ins whatever), the more they tend to come up. It can become a habit for the brain. There's no limit to the number of headmate type things your brain can generate. They can form or not form, and if you don't let them in there's not any actual consequence so please don't feel guilty (anyone reading). I'm a strong propenent of system control. You (current accepted headmates) get to decide what you want for your system, and maintain that. For us, that definitely includes ignoring intrusive thoughts and intrusive thoughtforms. We also do preventative measures to avoid stuff forming. We don't seem prone to walk-ins, but we have seen other systems succeed in avoiding walk-ins/unwanted system growth, so it's very possible. It's not something that you can't gain control of

2

The rules you enforce in your mind is what your mind will follow, you just have to build up that structure

8:22 PM

Some rules are unintentional and destructive, but once you keep enforcing it, your mind will follow the structure you created until you change the set of rules. Your mind will do what you want, you have control over it as long as you take that control and keep it

Yuka

Discord canary crashed and I lost my message D:

Stop using unstable releases!

Kei Wendt

I didn't create this headmate either, it just got revealed yesterday

At its core, tulpamancy is about convincing yourself that another part of your mind is "not you". I think this is important because it makes sense for a thoughtform in the mind to have feelings, emotions, or even a sense of self. BUT that does not mean you have to accept that part as another person. Ultimately, it will always be a choice to accept a thoughtform as a separate person or not. There truly is no such thing as "too late", regardless how "developed" the thoughtform in question is. It is either a part of you, just something in the brain, or someone else, but you can decide which category a thoughtform falls into. Additionally, not all thoughtforms are created equal. Some people have characters that "seem sentient" and others have tulpas that some people think are underdeveloped. What matters more is how you and/or your system views the thoughtform in question, not what other people think it is. === With that context in hand, the more important question is what do you want? If you want to keep them, that's fine. If you don't, that's also fine. If you need more time to think about it, there's no rush. One of the mistakes we made as a system was feeling there was some magical time limit when that's not true. As for accepting the thoughtform, you may need to rethink how you all operate as a system but it doesn't need to be a crisis. We can go over different scenarios and you all can decide what's best for your system.

Galli

Do it anyway

Violence is not necessary. While some systems are comfortable attacking their intrusive thoughts in wonderland, this is not needed. Given Kei's distress, I think this is the wrong approach.

I originally planned to lie here and say i got rid of him since people were so insistent but He apologized to me and said it was because he was scared, and said his name wanted to be james. And then he smiled very genuinely And that was when i thought "i can't just get rid of him" Especially since... i recognize him from somewhere. He's been here before, back when something bad happened — that was him, and he was just terrified. Someone who's terrified, i feel like it's better to let them have a chance than to just throw them away. So i let him have a chance. I.. don't know if i identify with 'tulpa' very much. I know some people here would get mad at me for saying i don't feel like they're tulpas and that i'm being toxic to myself, but my psychiatrist never said i don't have a disorder, just that it seemed like it wasn't causing any problems as i described it And i did fail to describe some of the more unpleasant symptoms. Plus, james being a thing now makes me think there's something more to this. Regardless, i won't automatically assume i have a disorder. I feel like i could be endogenic, but i also definitely feel that my headmates were not created at the time of me attempting to practice tulpamancy, and that they've been with me far longer than i realized before. So.... yeah. I hope people aren't upset with me saying that.

I think this is a failure on behalf of others moreso than you

11:17 PM

We're tulpamancers, it's easy to get caught up in ethics and stuff. However, I see time and time again telling people they must do xyz because "it's right for their tulpas" not only doesn't work, it creates frustration and causes other problems

At its core, tulpamancy is about convincing yourself that another part of your mind is "not you".

Lucilyn: yes but note: tulpas start to sound/feel more separate from you as they develop, so the end result isn't usually like how it is at the start (edited)

11:18 PM

some people's tulpas might start out already sounding/feeling separate though, usually if they have particularly active imaginations

Reisen

At its core, tulpamancy is about convincing yourself that another part of your mind is "not you".

Lucilyn: yes but note: tulpas start to sound/feel more separate from you as they develop, so the end result isn't usually like how it is at the start (edited)

True, but one's sense of self is incredibly fluid. Technically, Gray and I could be one person tomorrow if we really wanted to be

I hope you're doing okay, Kei

Lucilyn: okay well tulpamancy is about teaching people how to have a specific experience lol (edited)

11:21 PM

your brain could do lots of things

I think it's unrealistic to tell people that their tulpas "seem sentient" and then expect them to be okay when they are struggling with walk-ins they think they don't have control over. They look to people giving advice instead of doing what they are comfortable with, we rarely can impose our beliefs on them to the point they conform to "our" experiences, so everyone loses in this scenario.

Yuka

I hope you're doing okay, Kei

Thank you I'm feeling a lot better now We've decided we want to get james and the rest of us help instead of trying to get rid of james Since i have a feeling that getting rid of him would just bring him back even angrier and more scared than before If i felt that he were nothing but a walk in i wouldn't have been worried. I would have just denied he enter our system. But it feels like he was already there, so...

11:24 PM

Yeeeaah idk what else i was gonna say

It's what you and your system want, that's what matters most If you have questions or need any help, feel free to let people know.

11:28 PM

=== As for other people, please remember that your system beliefs or even your beliefs on how tulpas should work won't apply to everyone. Even really basic assumptions like "tulpas should be given lots of attention all the time" may not apply to every system. That doesn't mean these tulpas don't deserve respect or anything like that, it just means that system operates differently. Unfortunately, good advice can hurt people. I learned this the hard way, I have hurt lots of people by giving specific advice I thought was good. Seeing system after system feeling insecure about themselves is what motivated me to change my mind and my approach to giving advice on walk-ins and such. *critical edit, sorry, tired (edited)

Oh yeah that's ok

11:30 PM

But yeah It really does seem to depend on the person Plurality is such a vast concept, it's hard to say there's exactly one specfic way (or a few specific ways) on how it should work

11:31 PM

I mostly was just asking here if tulpas could be like that so i could know if i should be concerned or not Cuz if it were just a tulpa i would just be like "oh i can just dissipate it"

Oh? A ~~lot of~~ people tend to assume walk-ins are baby tulpas

Edit: Yikes, I'm too tired for this conversation, correction: https://discord.com/channels/431579755037589505/431895651266330644/1104189324406292571 (edited)

11:32 PM

You can still dissipate a walk-in just like a tulpa, but again the question is do you want to

The thing is, what i thought is that tulpas can't be harmful Which is why i was confused when a headmate saying potentially hurtful things appeared

A long kiss goodnight

Oh? A ~~lot of~~ people tend to assume walk-ins are baby tulpas

Edit: Yikes, I'm too tired for this conversation, correction: https://discord.com/channels/431579755037589505/431895651266330644/1104189324406292571 (edited)

I'm sorry for the self-reply but this statement is pretty bad so I need to add context. I think some people can view walk-ins as baby tulpas, but they don't have to be viewed that way. I think "most people" is pretty balsy of an assumption, so just ignore that...

Ahh ok

We were given a lot of heat for being a large system. Some people would accuse us of not having real tulpas, those that believed our tulpas were real would tell us we're terrible hosts for not giving everyone enough time and/or we shouldn't have accepted the others. Well we did and we don't want to dissipate them. Our headmates don't want to be dissipated either. Nobody gave us great advice on what the next steps were, so we had to figure it out.

11:41 PM

We ended up deciding as a system that we should give as much time as we can to the others, but not to berate ourselves if we can't give them enough time. They have the option to opt out if they're not satisfied, or they can choose to integrate. And that's what some of our headmates did. While some systems function just fine with the headmates "walk in" and "walk out" approach, our system doesn't. With this open door, we mentored another system who had a walk-in. And they currently don't have a system population issue! They're actually a binary system who experimented and decided it wasn't for them, the walk-in turned out to be a facet of the host. And even if the system does grow larger, it's not like judging them would have prevented that from happening. It just means that they are free to be themselves and they can enjoy their tulpa journey instead of walk around with all of this shame they don't need. I'm sorry for the rant, I'm tired and I feel really strongly about this.

Yeah that's fair

11:43 PM

Unfortunate that people got so upset with you when it's your (collective) brain

Its a big flaw I noticed when it comes to the advice in this community

That’s a very similar experience to what we had three years ago when we just started exponentially growing, people were just so rude, but we made our bed so we had to lie in it, we made our schedule and through trial and error found what worked for our system since a lot of advice was geared towards smaller systems

Ranger ↩️

Reply to: We were given a lot of heat for being a large system. Some people would accuse us of not having real…

They will often think of the "patient" as immoral and dismiss them as someone who deserves to suffer/is doing it wrong so doesn't need help

11:45 PM

I saw this on reddit a few days ago and it doesn't help anyone

There does tend to be a rush to stop people from heading down what's perceived as a harmful path. It can be overbearing and unhelpful... But it does come from years of seeing people get into bad situations that could have been prevented

1

Yuka

There does tend to be a rush to stop people from heading down what's perceived as a harmful path. It can be overbearing and unhelpful... But it does come from years of seeing people get into bad situations that could have been prevented

Sure but I am mostly talking about straight berating

I'm against berating people

I haven't seen it on here

11:48 PM

It is just somethign I noticed in the more public parts of the community

Yuka

There does tend to be a rush to stop people from heading down what's perceived as a harmful path. It can be overbearing and unhelpful... But it does come from years of seeing people get into bad situations that could have been prevented

Right. And after years more, I realized that the approach isn't effective. It's the unfortunate aftermath of good intentions being applied in an unhelpful way

They literally described them as something that was telling them to hurt themself If you encourage someone to keep a thoughtform who acts like that, your disgusting, I’m sorry but it’s true

I don't think anyone ever encouraged them to keep it

Baby tulpas or walk-ins can act like intrusive thoughts and then turn around fast If the thoughtform was still saying stuff like that, I agree Rusty, I would not be encouraging Kei to keep them. I'm assuming that things did turn around since the thoughtform started cooperating

Rusty

They literally described them as something that was telling them to hurt themself If you encourage someone to keep a thoughtform who acts like that, your disgusting, I’m sorry but it’s true

Let's say for hypothetical's sake he's a persecutor headmate who's always been here and only just now resurfaced. If that were the case, which i strongly feel that it is, it would be dangerous to try to literally force him out of existence Non-tulpa headmates can't really be forced out like tulpas and walk-ins can.. but idk

11:54 PM

I feel a little bad now though I was going to lie about "keeping" him because i knew people would be upset I know he told me to hurt myself, but he was scared... idk

Persecutor is a DID term and therefore you should not be asking for advice on one here

Yeah idk Sorry

11:54 PM

I should probably just assume they're all tulpas I don't know what to do anymore

Kei Wendt

Yeah idk Sorry

If its DID then seek therapy

What is tulpa?

I did tell my psychiatrist and he said it sounds like a real experience but not to worry about it unless it starts to cause issues It caused some mildly unpleasant dissociative symptoms for years but nothing serious until now afaik?

Kei Wendt

The thing is, what i thought is that tulpas can't be harmful Which is why i was confused when a headmate saying potentially hurtful things appeared

Well, to answer this. Tulpas are people, they do people things. They can be strong or weak in the mind. They can say mean or nice things. Sometimes intrusive thoughts are mistaken for coming from a tulpa. I'm sure most people interpreted the event of a thoughtform saying harmful things to you as intrusive thoughts in the form of a thoughtform, hence the advice you got. Most tulpas who are developed enough to be in control of their thoughts, are pretty understanding and don't attack their headmates, though

Sigh the wonderful world of "traumamancy" It could be trauma, but we can't say for sure. I wouold reach out to a professional if you're uncertain Kei

Why would this tulpa thing exist?

A long kiss goodnight

Sigh the wonderful world of "traumamancy" It could be trauma, but we can't say for sure. I wouold reach out to a professional if you're uncertain Kei

I am uncertain but i know that some people here are convinced that i'm "looking for excuses to be disordered"

11:58 PM

I honestly feel really unsafe in this server, like i'm not taken seriously for having concerns about my headmates' origins and that i should just treat them like tulpas

Deleted User

What is tulpa?

#what-is-a-tulpa

11:58 PM

Please do some basic reading first

Kei Wendt

I honestly feel really unsafe in this server, like i'm not taken seriously for having concerns about my headmates' origins and that i should just treat them like tulpas

This is a tulpa server, we cannot give you advice for things that are not tulpas. We have knowledge in tulpas. I don’t know what else you expected??

I'm sorry

12:00 AM

I just thought

I also feel bad that some people here have been really pushy

That i was allowed to have a concern without two specific people saying i'm fucking faking it And that i would be allowed to stay here in case i had any concerns about tulpamancy

I don't think anyone here should be so controlling towards others, but I also can't control what they say in chat either

If you think you don’t have tulpas then why are you asking for advice in a tulpa server and then getting upset we give tulpa advice?

That's. Not what happened? At least not what i thought happened

It's not uncommon for people to start with tulpamancy and ask questions and figure out they have something else going on

12:02 AM

...it's pretty common even

I was asking If james could be a tulpa Not anything else I wanted to know If i should be concerned about having something other than tulpas Idk but it seemed like something that people who know about tulpas could help with !!

12:04 AM

Maybe i should just fucking leave though i've just about had enough I'm always too nice to everyone even when they're rude back

12:04 AM

I'm sorry that was bad Never mind

Yuka

It's not uncommon for people to start with tulpamancy and ask questions and figure out they have something else going on

Yeah that's what i thought was happening here

12:04 AM

Idfk

Lucilyn: tulpa's a tulpa if you think it's a tulpa (edited)

^